Pre-game Map Thread

[Daemonknight]

This thread is for distributing the pre-game map, aswell as for you guys to give input. The first iteration of the map is solely for firming up the borders: ignore ALL hex elements you might see, and also ignore all RCW and NCWs- there are some left overs from the previous game: things like Sudeten still being the Falcon OZ NCW, and Somerset being called Addergard. Just pay attention to the location of the borders, aswell as the planets along the border worlds.

IF you have a dispute with border or planetary locations, please post them here, but only if you can find hard evidence that conclusively points to your faction owning this planet by January 1st, 3039. Even if your faction owned it by January 2nd 3039, we arn't starting there, so you don't get it. Okay? And by proof, I mean a page number in a FASA/Catalyst publication, or a cited Sarna.com page.

[Ian Sharpe]

How are we handling the Sarna March?  IIRC, Melissa was the Duchess of the Sarna March.  So is the whole thing going to be Lyran, or divided between the FS and LC? 

[Daemonknight]

If i remember correctly from the preview map Chaos gave me, the Sarna area is Lyran blue

[chaosxtreme]

*Points to what Ian and Daemon said.

The entirety of the Sarna March is part of the Lyran State Command of the Federated Commonwealth so it is all Lyran Blue to start it stands to reason after start the Federated Commonwealth Faction Head's can shuffle responsibilities or garrisons as they so choose.

[chaosxtreme]

Alright Promised first draft map.

I have most of what I wanted done for the first round map on here.

Again Google Docs looks HORRIBLE until you ctrl+s and download rather then looking at the file in Google Docs format. So remember that guys.

Things I know to be wrong with the map I am stilll working on.
- Several worlds in the St. Ives Compact, Capellan Confederation, Federated Suns general area lost their names. I am reintering them.


Things to report if you find them
- Worlds you know to have been added in the last FGC still being there.
- Any infrastructure should not be on the map.
- Worlds/Hex's you think your faction should own but do not.

Preferred Format for this information

Hex #, World Name, Description of change (Ownership Faction Blah, should be a regional capital,); source citation and page number of source.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bw6Hvy7qg9vdQkg5WnhfZndlUUk

[Lord Harlock]

Okay going by the map Free Rasalhague Republic on page 8 of 20 Years Update, hexes 2807 and 2908 should not exist. Those planets belonged to the Elysian Fields. Hex 2910, 2717 should belong to the Combine: these hexes should be split 2617(Altermarkt-FRR,Rubigen-DC) & 2912(Jezerscko-FRR, Polcenigo-DC). Hexes 2415 (Kobe-LC,Bessarabia-LC, Skaula-LC, Wheel-FRR, Hyperion-FRR, Hainfeld-FRR), 2416( Suk II-LC, Domain-LC, Thun-FRR, Galuzzo-FRR, Carse-FRR), & 2514(Tamar-LC, Memmingen-FRR) should be split between the Lyran Commonwealth and FRR

As for systems that should belong to Rasalhague going by the map, Hexes 2413 & 2414. Though, I'm honestly willing to lose 2514 and 3413 utterly for a shipyard. Okay, that's not going to happen, but it'd probably just be easier to give up Mortz just to make sure that the Lyrans have Tamar outright. Though I kind of want Weingarten, so that is non negotiable.

I'll get back on the factories since that is really bogged down in future Clan stuff. However, the provincial captials of the FRR are Radstadt (Hex 2714) & Skandia (Hex 2616).

[Daemonknight]

In the interest of letting you guys have some say in the make up of your factions,  I want all the faction heads to prepare me a list, minimum of 4, of POTENTIAL Prestigious Facilities. 2 of them should be your top military training academies(mechwarrior or otherwise), and the other 2 should be top research universities or manufacturing companies with a history of developing advanced designs. I want your recommendation on the planet they should be located on, aswell as a rating of 1-5, compared to the rest of your faction, how good they are. I'd prefer a small write up to explain your rating aswell.

And an FYI, research rules are being finalized tonight, they should be up tomorrow or tonight, depending on if I am happy with them. Same for the basic com rules. Please PM these to me btw.

[chaosxtreme]

Factories come later right now with regards to facilities we are just checking to make sure they are all deleted off already found 1 that I missed.

Worlds may get shifted around I have zero intention at this time to create shared hex's if it at all can be avoided without compromising the integrity of the Sphere and borders.

[Hugin]

Just a suggestion but an important for me:

Could we please get rid of the holes within the nations?, Pretty please?

I know they are empty and void and not really claimed by anyone but it looks so stupid on a map...

(and posting after getting horribly drunk, sleeping for 4 hours and just having a shower is difficult)

[Daemonknight]

In a word, no. Hexes that have no Control Worlds in them stay colorless(white). This avoids confusion about who owns what hexes, and thus what hexes need Hostile Movement posts. Because technically, a faction could hide military units in that hole, and they wouldn't need to report their presence unless a hostile force appeared there as well. While I appreciate it might rub against your sense of aesthetics, the lack of color serves an important game mechanical function, and we can't change that just because it might not look pretty.

[ThreeGees]

How do you download the map?

NM, I got it

[chaosxtreme]

Besides it incentives people actually building space stations or searching for worlds to fill the wholes and those things acctually are useful they make deep raiding possible raid 2 deep then raid 2 further deeeper where they exist. Love those things.

[Hugin]

In a word, no. Hexes that have no Control Worlds in them stay colorless(white). This avoids confusion about who owns what hexes, and thus what hexes need Hostile Movement posts. Because technically, a faction could hide military units in that hole, and they wouldn't need to report their presence unless a hostile force appeared there as well. While I appreciate it might rub against your sense of aesthetics, the lack of color serves an important game mechanical function, and we can't change that just because it might not look pretty.

I totally understand - it's just the geograph in me that screams in agony

[GreyJaeger]

In the interest of letting you guys have some say in the make up of your factions,  I want all the faction heads to prepare me a list, minimum of 4, of POTENTIAL Prestigious Facilities. 2 of them should be your top military training academies(mechwarrior or otherwise), and the other 2 should be top research universities or manufacturing companies with a history of developing advanced designs. I want your recommendation on the planet they should be located on, aswell as a rating of 1-5, compared to the rest of your faction, how good they are. I'd prefer a small write up to explain your rating aswell.

And an FYI, research rules are being finalized tonight, they should be up tomorrow or tonight, depending on if I am happy with them. Same for the basic com rules. Please PM these to me btw.

Working on this for the DC, and although I know through various sources what the DC had developed and even when, coming up with who did it is being a bit more problematic. Especially since this time frame they really did not flesh those things out too much.

But question on how to rank these things, what is the benchmark? Is the 1-5 rating what Tier they are, level of importance, or what?

[Daemonknight]

Level of importance, and if you had to rate them, using your own criteria, what would you say they are. I'm setting the Tiers, so don't worry about that

[chaosxtreme]

Alright just to put some time tables on this so we don't get stuck on this phase especially since map wise I am mostly waiting for people's feedback.

Everything that has been submitted above this has been considered and where appropriate incorporated into the next version of the pregame map I am not releasing it yet because I would rather just have one release where people kick things up to DK for (seriously I deserve X) that's not to say a good deal of what was provided didn't pass muster fact is it mostly has and the map will reflect that.

That along with anything else that is provided by this coming Friday the 4th 3 p.m. Central Standard Time will be incorporated in the next version of the pregame map and be posted no later then Saturday 9 p.m. CST May 5th.


Second round for any resubmittal will get passed on to DK with your evidence and and a brief description of why I didn't implement it.  DK will make a decision on that and I will implement it I intend to deliver those changes no later then Saturday May 12th.

This time table may be shortened after I speak to DK. Frankly at this point the map is ready to rock and roll and I really only need 3 days to add the infra he just gave me he is waitig on you lot for PF additions once they are in things should go relatively quick.

Just saying guy's on a personal note I am in training this week which mean's it's a light week for me next week not so much. If you can please try to get any further requests for territorial adjustments in this week because if I can get the heavy lifting done early in the week before my boss realizes I do most of the work on the systems team and start's asking me to work night's that would be for the best for a quick resolution of the map.

[Parmenion]

If I may, I’ll put in some comments in regards the Magistracy of Canopus, since I have a passing acquaintance with the place:

There is not a lot to go on in regards the colonisation (actually, recolonisation) timeframes of a number of worlds from the period between 3027 and 3050.

In my opinion, the Magistracy map in Objective Raids isn’t worth even a bucket of pus, so I would probably use the Periphery sourcebook (nr 1692) @3059 for a comparison of maps between the two time periods.

What is on the @3059 map and isn’t on the 3027 map is:

Vixen (hex 1339)
Ballad II (hex 1442)
Westheimer (hex 1544)
Crawford’s Delight (hex 1744)
Kossandra’s Memory (hex 1642)

Of the above, the most likely to have been re-colonised in the intervening period is Ballad II and Vixen.  Ballad II is/was a provincial capital, so they would probably have wanted to re-establish the place as a prelude for subsequent expansion (which was occurring).  Vixen as a bridge to the isolated world of Thraxa.  For the other three worlds, I really do think they wouldn’t have been re-colonised until the 3040s, mainly because the Canopian economy was only just coming out of years of stagnantation.

From this, the following three worlds:
Port Western Reach (hex 1539)
Crow’s Feat (hex 2045)
McEvedy’s Folly (hex 0844)

Should be removed from the map, as they were GM or player initiated worlds from the 3063 game.

ADDITION:
Addasar (hex 2444) needs to be re-included as it was chopped.  Addasar has been an established Magistracy world since at least 2750.

[Parmenion]

Federated Suns data:

Transfers to the St Ives Compact:
Hex 2935
Tantara
Texlos

Hex 3034
Maladar
Warlock
Teng
Tallin


Additions to the FedSuns (from that Taurian browny colour):
Hex 4137
Verdigreis
Cohagen

Hex 4236
Estuan
Armington

Hex 4336
Csomad


Transfers to the Draconis Combine:
Hex 3423
McComb
Royal

Hex 3024
Cylene

Hex 2824
Murchison

Lima in hex 3524 is also Kuritan in this timeframe, but is sitting in the same hex as New Ivaarsen.  Can Lima be pushed a fraction ‘north’ into hex 3523 to accommodate the Kuritan occupation?

Likewise in hex 3024, Skat and Markab are under Kuritan control.  Can they be moved into 3023?

Transfers from Lyran blue to Federated Suns:
Hex 2625
Bryant
Caph
Epsilon Indi
Fomalhaut
Northwind

Transfer from FedSuns to Lyran Commonwealth:
Hex 2727
Hex 2826
Hex 2827
Hex 2926
Hex 2827

Of note, there are a few worlds that according to the War of 3039 are Lyran or Davion, but because of the map setup they fall outside the above five hexes.  But I don’t think it is important enough to try and squeeze them sideways into other crowded hexes. 

I believe that covers most things, although will have to get a map from work printed out to take a detailed look at the interior.

cheers

 

[Fatebringer]

I'm showing about half of the CC without planetary names, is that my glitch or is everyone seeing the same thing? Here is the pre-3039 map I'm going off of from the book.

[chaosxtreme]

I am quite sure in my post, I noted that many of the world names got glitched before that one went up. That it was a known problem and was being addressed (in fact on the next version of the map it is already fixed).

Reading now with understanding. It's a good thing. 

[Fatebringer]

Yes, I skipped over a lot of posts I made sure find a graphic that has the worlds I love

[ThreeGees]

Well, I know of 17 you can't have back

[Fatebringer]

Dear Sister,

I only hope that you listen to the will of your people, all of whom were Capellan Citizens who have lost the support of Sian because of your ... decision, it is the only way to rule.

Sincerely yours,

Romano Liao

[Iron Mongoose]

Dear Auntie,

I'm having a birthday party on Hellspire, and you should definatly come.  It's going to be a lot of fun...

With love,
Kali

[Fatebringer]

[shudder] She's only 6 and I'm already concerned about her.[Shudder]

[Daemonknight]

as you should be

(takes off GM hat, puts on Moderator hat)

please keep the OOC banter in the OOC forums from now on thanks!

[chaosxtreme]

Next version of the map just sent to DK waiting on confirmation before I post here.

[Daemonknight]

A few things need to be updated on the map, which I have informed Chaos about. But otherwise the map should be ready to rock, and I will begin the process of inputting territorial data into the sheets once you guys get them in to me at emiller228@hotmail.com

currently, only Lord Harlock(FRR) has submitted his sheet.

[Ian Sharpe]

I imagine Hugin is working on the LC sheet, but I have heard nothing. 

[Daemonknight]

I know he is, I spoke with him last night. I'm just going to fill in the territory tabs on the unfinished sheets I have, so I can copy-paste them onto the finished sheets the Faction Heads are sending me. Then once I've verified everything is correct, the FHs get their finished sheets, and we can kick the game off. Hoping to start on Monday, but it all depends on how fast the last few pieces come together.

[Lord Harlock]

A few things need to be updated on the map, which I have informed Chaos about. But otherwise the map should be ready to rock, and I will begin the process of inputting territorial data into the sheets once you guys get them in to me at emiller228@hotmail.com

currently, only Lord Harlock(FRR) has submitted his sheet.

Ära till den höga far!

[chaosxtreme]

Latest version of Pregame Map.

So yeah no more territorial change's before the game goes live. But if somethings broke let me know. There were a couple of things people asked for that I couldn't confirm in source. There were a couple of things that were a wash (move one control world from hex blah and give another control world to faction blah). Moving planet names from the last import doesn't work so well due to inkscape so that's why that didn't happen.

If you see something that's just hugely broken.

Hex # , What's wrong, cite source (note this field should be blank if its something like blue square is in the hex) <Return>

Makes it much easier to go through request's and to make sure things don't get missed and to vet things and to send things to DK that need a ruling.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bw6Hvy7qg9vdYnhiSGowZ2wwY28

[ThreeGees]

Hex# 2832: Gei-fu and Relevow belong to the Capellan Confederation

Hex# 2734: New Westin And Hustaing belong to the Cap Con

Hex# 2934: St. Loris belongs to the St. Ives Compact

Source: http://home.ifi.uio.no/~oysteint/btech/3030.pdf (this is one of Oystein's Maps and he's the official mapmaker for CGL)

[Daemonknight]

We won't be making those updates to the map. The net movement is -1 Member World to the FS, -3 MW/-1CW from the SIC, +1 MW to the SIC, +3MW/+1CW to the CC

these are minor changes, and not worth the headache it would cause Chaos to make them. Consider them a start of game gift for having the extra worlds.

[Cannonshop]

Latest version of Pregame Map.

So yeah no more territorial change's before the game goes live. But if somethings broke let me know. There were a couple of things people asked for that I couldn't confirm in source. There were a couple of things that were a wash (move one control world from hex blah and give another control world to faction blah). Moving planet names from the last import doesn't work so well due to inkscape so that's why that didn't happen.

If you see something that's just hugely broken.

Hex # , What's wrong, cite source (note this field should be blank if its something like blue square is in the hex) <Return>

Makes it much easier to go through request's and to make sure things don't get missed and to vet things and to send things to DK that need a ruling.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bw6Hvy7qg9vdYnhiSGowZ2wwY28

Okay, why in frell am I getting the page for "Google Drive"??

[Daemonknight]

No clue...I clearly get Google Docs with mapturn0mark7

[chaosxtreme]

Solved CS's problem through the power of SCI....open in a new tab.

[Fatebringer]

We won't be making those updates to the map. The net movement is -1 Member World to the FS, -3 MW/-1CW from the SIC, +1 MW to the SIC, +3MW/+1CW to the CC

these are minor changes, and not worth the headache it would cause Chaos to make them. Consider them a start of game gift for having the extra worlds.

Can we at least acknowledge their ownership by the CC? For a realm our size, it WILL make a difference. Especially with two of my biggest Militia on two of those worlds.

[Fatebringer]

Now that most of the names are on the map we can chime in.

Map Updates

The following World appears to be missing

Hex# 2730 - Yunnah - LC

The following names are still missing.

Hex# 2535 - Altorra, Claxton, Ito

The following Hex should be LC as every world in it shows to be under FedCom Control per the early maps on 3039.

Hex# 2531

The following was as sated per Absolom but I understand the desire for the GM's to not want to use half or contested hexes off the bat.

Hex# 2832: Gei-fu and Relevow belong to the Capellan Confederation

Hex# 2734: New Westin And Hustaing belong to the Cap Con

Hex# 2934: St. Loris belongs to the St. Ives Compact

Source: http://home.ifi.uio.no/~oysteint/btech/3030.pdf (this is one of Oystein's Maps and he's the official mapmaker for CGL)

As a "Just for the record" addendum to the above,

Hex# 2831 - Truth should be LC
Hex# 2631 - Raballa should be LC

[Hugin]

The following Hex should be LC as every world in it shows to be under FedCom Control per the early maps on 3039.

Hex# 2531

If the GM's approve I'm fine with that

As a "Just for the record" addendum to the above,

Hex# 2831 - Truth should be LC
Hex# 2631 - Raballa should be LC

you can keep them - they are member worlds and I like them with your hexes 

[Daemonknight]

In short: no.

The ammount of effort it takes Chaos to move a planet is much larger than you might think. Alot of the world dots and names are linked together, so moving them is not as simple as "grab the word with the hand tool and move it over 2 inches". Sometimes that'll move every single world name on the opposite side of the map. He'd have to go back and re-do the entire map by hand, which isn't worth the effort.

For the time being, with the exception of Outreach, there are no split hexes because it causes too much confusion, and techniclly having any garrison on the world makes it contested and therefore useless to both factions. I realize that the extra .75 RP/turn might be desireable to the CC, but in this instance, its too much work to fix the discrepancy for the minor impact it would have.

[Parmenion]

Mmmm... tried for a couple of days now to open the latest map, but keep getting the following:

Sorry, we are unable to generate a view of the document at this time. Please try again later.
You can also try to download the original document by clicking here.
Loading...

Any thoughts on how I can get around this?  Thanks.
 

[Hugin]

gimme your mail addy

I'll send it to you

[Hugin]

Hi Folks!

I came across my old FGC files and found the original .AI files that Sulla made back in the old days.

So with the OK from Daemonknight and Chaosextreme I went ahead and made a whole new map for the game

For you it does not look like much but for the Map guys it means that we can change stuff without any major problems, things are organized in the map, streamlined for hex elements,....

This map took me 7 hours of work today - so I hope you guys enjoy it

*waves*

Hugin

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bx3pfLCNqo7vWGVieUY5SGVvN00

[Bergie]

Is there a higher definition of version of the map?  I'm trying to make out the planet names and can't really make them out on my computer.

[Bergie]

NM on the file, figured it out.  Question though: What worlds are Roses Harmon, Volubilis, Buffy, Tambourin, Lowell, and Freehold around the TC.  I don't remember ever hearing of them.  Likewise, I don't think Colchis existed in 3039.

[Bergie]

Also Brinton was under quarantine by this point after a raid on the world around 3025.  Also, is there any point why all the Hyades worlds are in different hexes when they are less than a few lightyears away?  Seems having the Hyades cluster in one hex would be a better bet.

[Daemonknight]

Those are likely there as holdovers from older maps. Since the periphery factions arn't playable and arn't actually doing anything, i'm not worried about their territory. And FHs are discouraged from going after NPC factions such as the periphery for 'easy money'

[Bergie]

Just pointing it out as errata.  Being a taurian fan,of course that is the area I look to first after my own playing nation

[Hugin]

being the map guy of this game all I can say is: send the change suggestions to the GM and me, if he gives approvement I'll make them disappear